Disappointing "Women Who Rock"

[Steve Schenck]

Last night, I watched on PBS (NY area) a new documentary called "Women Who Rock." In the intro, one of the participating critic/commentators noted that women, as pop artisits and rock musicans, have greatly influenced rock and roll music, being today perhaps more significant even than men... Fair enough. What a disappointment to find that there was to be not one mention of Dionne's work. They mentioned her name in an extended segment about Darlene Love, just as one artist in a long list for whom Darlene did back-up work. Now, some might say that Dionne's music was not really "rock and roll," and therefore didn't deserve to be mentioned. Well, how come Carole King had significant moments, and an extended clip of her singing "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?" That is hardly a rock and roll song; a beautiful ballad, to be sure. But why were some ballads, of some artists mentioned, and not Dionne? I could see if Dionne had been a quick flash-in-the-pan artist, a one or two-hits wonder who was never heard of again. Overall, I found the documentary interesting and insightful, but to have completely ignored her work (not to mention Burt's compositional contributions) seemed strange at best and unfair at worst.

[BachtoBacharach]

Steve, Dionne was always running neck and neck with Aretha in popularity in the mid-sixties to the early seventies (I do not debate the Diana Ross fans who always bring up that Diana was more popular than either because until 1970 when Diana went solo, she was a member of a vocal group...and when she went solo, it took a little while for her to catch fire as a solo artist and that was mainly due to the hype surrounding "Lady Sings the Blues") when she just exploded after that for several years). Dionne, prior to Aretha, was consistently the top female singer in the US from about 64-67, when Aretha Arrived! Comparing Dionne's popularity to Aretha's is like comparing the Rolling Stones to the Beatles but people persist in comparing apples to oranges. Coming in a strong second to Aretha is not shabby at all. However, I don't understand why Dionne's music has been mostly ignored in the past 15 years or so unless it's things like the PFN, the tax scandals, the charity scandal and things like Celebrity Apprentice. However she apparently squandered her personal credibility, her music from 1962 through 1972 stands alone and bar none impacted far more artists than the current crop of music critics want to believe. It's easy to dismiss her if all you know about her is the Psychic Friends Network and some so called educated music critics that make old, stale jokes about that are just plain ignorant . There is not another female popular singer from the 20th century that can even compare to the diverse influence she had on a broad range of artists; not Diana, not Aretha, not Dusty (Dusty has said that Dionne alone influenced her to change her look and her sound and she idolized her and her recordings...Wishin' and Hopin' is practically a note for note knock-off of Dionne's original) or Petula or Cilla (both who copied her tunes and keep in mind that Dionne's Anyone Who Had A Heart which Cilla Black copied practically note for note from Dionne's recording was attributed to starting "The London Sound" although Cilla was from Liverpool!)...etc can match her influence on music. Every British female singer was covering her material and her look; she counted among her fans in the 60s Aretha, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, Ike and Tina Turner, Janis Joplin, Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, and so many others. She influenced Linda Ronstadt, Olivia Newton-John, Roberta Flack, Alice Cooper, Carly Simon, continuing to Whitney Houston, Celine Dion, Beyonce, and Rihanna to name a few. Her music is frequently sampled by rap artists (much more than Aretha's). Here is what Nick Toches wrote about Dionne in 1972 (thanks to Dibotis): Writes Nick Tosches, the renowned writer, music journalist, novelist, biographer and poet in the January 7, 1972 issue of the rock magazine FUSION; "...getting into Dionne Warwick is like finding buried treasure. The Bacharach/David repertoire which milady chooses to sing is so fascinatingly cynical / fatalistic / stoical / emotional / happy, simultaneously! It's pure emotion. There is a whole lot more to emotion than some rock punk bursting his dexedrine-staved blood vessels by screaming "Baby I need you baby" into a microphone. Dionne Warwick is not a rock and roll singer. She's not a jazz singer either. Rhythm and blues? Nope. A pop singer? No way. Did you ever tongue-kiss with someone who barfed a Singapore Sling bolus into your mouth, and then four years later you're with someone else and you feel good and you realize how beautiful it all was and then it's all melancholy/happiness, sort of? That's the kind of singer Dionne Warwick is. She's beautiful. Dionne, paired with Bacharach's string/horn/reed arrangements, comes up as a lyric mezzo-sopranoid par-excellence, melodious/expressiveness-wise. If you've never gotten into her, you ought to. Get hep to Dionne Warwick. For your own sake."

[gillanddon]

Fabulous B to B .. I entirely agree with all the sentiments. Do you think the failure of Dionne to get voted onto the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is linked to the inability everyone seems to have to caterorize her?

[BachtoBacharach]

No, think it's politics plain and simple. Dusty is in...she's not a rock singer. Abba's in...not a rock group...Madonna's in...she's not anything...Mama's and the Papa's in...they were the most sublime POP group ever...that old argument that Dionne's not a rock and roller doesn't hold water. I think it's because she didn't record for Atlantic for one thing. I also think that she was a little too MOR in the 1980s...just as Aretha was but Dionne didn't record for Atlantic. I do believe some of her missteps in the late 1980s through now continue to haunt her...she has suffered a lack of good judgement and squandered a lot of credibility...it's quite strange how some folks react so vehemently to her when you mention her contribution to music in the past 50 years...I do believe the sleaze she has associated herself with in the past 20 years and the alleged scams she has lent her name to have cost her. Sad but I believe that more than anything else is the cause. She sold herself out big time and lost her credibility in the process. I believe her name will shine again but I don't believe that will happen any time soon...the "scams" and "sleaze factor" are still too fresh. While I am on the subject, I have always loved Aretha and her music but I also believe she is overrated...she has been idolized enough in recent years to overcome her own "sleaze factor." Not so with Dionne because I think she is so blind to it. She has never bothered to try to repair her image and she always seems to be around the folks who want to make a quick buck off her and she has sold her name to them.

[Blair N. Cummings]

B to B:
I had never heard the "Atlantic Hypothesis" before. Is it that the overwhelming cachet of hipness the label once exuded made the non-Atlantic-signed Dionne an untouchable? Or did the long arm of Ahmet Ertegun shunt her aside?
Either way, I still don`t believe election to this or any other "hall of fame" has ever goosed anyone`s sales or reputation. As I`ve stated before, I think time will prove to be the ultimate arbiter of not merely fame but of genuine creative worth.

[BachtoBacharach]

Ahmet Ertegun controls the RRHOF and the roster of Atlantic artists past and present are extremely well represented. I have a theory...Dionne was offered a substantial contract by Atlantic according to the trade papers in 1968; Ertegun was Chairman of the Board of Atlantic at the time...she would not break her contract with Scepter to accept the offer. Ertegun was no Warwick fan but I believe, wanted to bury Dionne at Atlantic so that spotlight she shared with Aretha could be Aretha's alone. Both the ladies were friends, to Ertegun, business was business and wanted to make sure the Aretha franchise he created so carefully wasn't bested by tiny Scepter...how dare Warwick recording for tiny Scepter be so big a superstar without the gigantic hype machine he put behind Aretha! Atlantic was THE powerhouse in the recording industry in the 1960s and Dionne was Aretha's only true competition...Diana wasn't...she was total pop, Barbra Streisand wasn't...total pop and in a different bag. Dionne was selling out arenas, nightclubs, and large venues and Aretha was not as big a concert draw...her magic struck in the studio and she was a very spotty concert performer...for every one appearance Aretha made on television, Dionne made five...etc. All this promotion for Dionne at Scepter was done by Paul Cantor, Steve Tyrell and Dionne herself. Aretha sold more records (and with Atlantic's powerful promotion and distribution arm, this is not surprising) but that's relative. Dionne was a fixture not only on the pop chart but the R & B singles and album chart as well. And, prior to Aretha's signing with Atlantic in 1967, she was with Columbia beginning in 1960, where Mitch Miller et al tried to turn her into the black Barbra Streisand. Aretha flopped at Columbia and in 1966 the label was shopping her to other labels. Little known fact is that in 1966, Florence Greenberg of Scepter was offered the chance to pick up the remainder of Aretha's Columbia contract but Florence turned it down because she had lightening in a bottle with Dionne and didn't want to focus on any other female singer. She had her "Superstar" in Dionne and she wasn't about to jinx that. Dionne alone was responsible for about 80 percent of the label's album sales and about 70 percent of single sales...and she was also a worldwide seller. This may play some part in this as well. It is well known that Ertegun engineered Aretha's sound along with Jerry Wexler and her image as this totally raw black female "anthem" singer who came out of nowhere was very carefully crafted by "white" (or in Ertegun's case a man of middle-eastern descent) men" (how often have I heard through the years that Dionne was "too white" because she had two Jewish men producing her????? More often than not!)...compare to the very polished Aretha at Columbia. Aretha was one of the first examples of what we take for granted in the recording industry today...she was controlled very carefully by Atlantic and was allowed to operate in a little box...granted Aretha had great freedom within that little box (studio)! Atlantic also tried to control Aretha's personal life as well and her battles with alcohol and drugs as well as abusive relationships are well known although Atlantic tried to keep such accounts out of the press, lest their carefully crafted image of Ree be tarnished...and Aretha herself acknowledeges that felt confined and controlled by Atlantic and Ertegan. And granted, Aretha's talent was NOT manufactured nor the product of Vocoder or Autotune. Dionne achieved a level of fame commensurate with Aretha's without the massive hype machine at Aretha's and Ertrgun's disposal and I submit that Dionne remained true to who she was during her entire career at Scepter. Some may argue that Bacharach and David did what Ertegun did but they simply found the perfect vehicle for their songs. Bacharach and David weren't powerful at the time and Dionne, Burt and Hal were more like a once in a lifetime chance happening than the carefully manufactured and controlled "Aretha Sound".

The RRHOF is completely political and has been plagued by scandals of its' own in the past several years. It never achieved the "credibility" that the founders intended. In fact, the RRHOF is chock full of substantial artists (and some not so substantial artists hence the snubs of those artists who have contributed far more than many of those inducted) become the story every year) and is much less than the sum of its' parts. It is an "award" bestowed upon music personalities by a board whose main purpose is to promote this tourist trap in Cleveland...there have been scandals about several things including millions in millions in music scholarship money promised but never deivered...the RRHOF is a total sham and would be with or without Dionne. Here is a great article in "Goldmine" about Dionne's exclusion and also Burt and Hal's.

By Phill Marder

Of all those ignored by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame thus far, DIONNE WARWICK may be the most puzzling of all. If it’s because she is considered easy listening and not Rock, the induction of Abba should cure that problem. But it’s a misconception, anyway, for under the guidance of Burt Bacharach (more on him later), Warwick was responsible for some of the most memorable rhythm & blues recordings of the early ’60s. As a result, she became one of the most successful female recording artists of the Rock age, both in singles and albums.

From her start as a background singer for the Drifters and demo provider for the Shirelles, Warwick steadily provided a string of hits. Yes, some bordered on the easy listening side, but many were almost heavy, starting with her first hit “Don’t Make Me Over” followed by “This Empty Place,” also done by the Searchers, “Make The Music Play,” also done by the Drifters, “Anyone Who Had A Heart,” “Walk On By,” “Reach Out For Me,” a cover of Lou Johnson’s version, “You Can Have Him,” a cover of Roy Hamilton’s big smash, “Message to Michael,” also recorded by Johnson in addition to Jerry Butler as “Message To Martha,” “Are You There (with Another Girl),” covered by the Buckinghams, “I Just Don’t Know What To Do With Myself,” covering Tommy Hunt’s version, “(There’s) Always Something There To Remind Me,” done by too many artists to name, and a cover of Butler’s “Make It Easy On Yourself.”

In the ’70s, she combined with the Spinners to hit No. 1 with “Then Came You.” In the 80s she paired with the Bee Gees for the top 10 “Heartbreaker” and with Elton John, Gladys Knight and Stevie Wonder in the No. 1 “That’s What Friends Are For,” hosted the TV show “Solid Gold” and made a prominent appearance on the “We Are The World” single. Also, some of her album cuts such as “Wishin’ & Hopin’,” copied almost note for note by Dusty Springfield, and “Close To You,” done by the Carpenters, provided the groundwork for other artists to have hits.

She’s won Grammy Awards, appeared in film and participated in countless charity events. This could go on and on. The bottom line is that her accomplishments have eclipsed almost every female singer and most male singers of the Rock age, many of whom already have been inducted. In one year, Warwick, recording for the tiny Scepter label, had more records in the top 10 of the Hot 100, the chart that measures all music, than inductees Ruth Brown and LaVern Baker did combined in their entire careers. While Brown and Baker put many singles on the R&B charts, check Warwick’s record. She held her own with both on the R&B singles chart and crushed both on the R&B album charts. Springfield, also already inducted, was one of Rock’s great female voices, but, again, her accomplishments pale compared with those of Warwick. Of course, Springfield, Brown and Baker recorded for Atlantic Records and the co-founder of Atlantic Records, Ahmet Ertegun, was chairman of the Hall of Fame. That might explain Warwick’s exclusion.

Suffice it to say, if Warwick had recorded for Atlantic she would have in the Hall of Fame years ago.

Then again, last year Wanda Jackson, who recorded for Capitol, was inducted while Warwick still waits. I’d love to hear the explanation for that.

BURT BACHARACH & HAL DAVID – Almost every great songwriting pair of the Rock & Roll era has been inducted. But not the greatest of all?

This duo not only wrote more hit songs than any combo in history, Bacharach, with his incredible productions and arrangements, changed the face of Rock & Roll. Suddenly, Rock could be classy as well as crude, brilliant music as well as primal energy.

If this pair has been snubbed because they weren’t rock enough, consider this partial list of artists who have recorded their works. Those in bold already have been inducted into the Hall of Fame:

The Beatles; The Shirelles; The Beachboys; BJ Thomas; The Buckinghams; The Carpenters; The Drifters; Gene Pitney; Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass; Jerry Butler; Manfred Mann; Marty Robbins; Chuck Jackson; The Searchers; Ray Charles; Tom Jones; The Walker Brothers: Gene McDaniels; Charlie Gracie; Frankie Avalon; The Turbans; Tommy Hunt; The Isley Brothers; Cliff Richard; Bobby Vee; Timi Yuro; Steve Alaimo; Jay & the Americans; Ray Peterson; Linda Scott; Bobby Vinton; Adam Wade; Paul Anka; Brook Benton; Maxine Brown; Jackie DeShannon; Freddie & the Dreamers; Billy J. Kramer & the Dakotas; Irma Thomas; Cilla Black; Trini Lopez; Rick Nelson; Dusty Springfield; Lenny Welch; The Fifth Dimension; Mark Lindsay; Susanna Hoffs; and, of course, Dionne Warwick, who became one of the era’s biggest-selling artists primarily by recording Bacharach-David compositions.

In addition, Bacharach compositions written with other lyricists have been recorded by Elvis, Stephen Bishop, Gene Vincent, Etta James, Gloria Lynne, Del Shannon, Marv Johnson, Tammi Terrell, Gladys Knight & the Pips, The Pointer Sisters, Christopher Cross, Nicolette Larson, Aretha Franklin, Neil Diamond, Roberta Flack, Quarterflash, Rod Stewart, Peabo Bryson, Melissa Manchester, Patti LaBelle & Michael McDonald, Kenny Rogers, Natalie Cole, Ray Parker Jr., Chris DeBurgh, Desmond Child, James Ingram, The Stylistics, Earth, Wind & Fire, Chicago and Johnny Mathis to name just a very few. Then throw in recent collaborations between Bacharach and Ronnie Isley and Bacharach and Elvis Costello and you’ve got an impeccable resume.

Every pair of composers currently in the Hall of Fame deserves to be there. But the first songwriting duo inducted should have been Burt Bacharach & Hal David. No pair has written more timeless classics. As Debbie Harry once commented, “If you can really get it together in three minutes…that’s what pop songs are all about.” And that’s what Bacharach & David were all about.


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[BachtoBacharach]

Will 2013 be the year for Bacharach/David AND Dionne Warwick to receive their due from the RRHOF? Not likely, alas because of the politics of the RRHOF board and this "honor" would really do nothing to further vaildate the great body of work they produced in the 1960s and early 70s and commencing again in the 80s. As lame as these types of awards are, the only thing that might result is a new appreciation and press for their work together and I'm all for that.

[Shemp9971]

I do think that Burt and Hal should be in the RRHOF. As for contemporary artists, the only ones who really come close to those classic sounds are the British gals: Amy Winehouse (God rest her soul; was disappointed that they didn't mention her in the "Women Who Rock" program; she probably would have wanted to collaborate with Burt), Adele, and Duffy.