What's it all about ... Burt?
Singer Rufus Wainwright, who guests on Burt Bacharach's new CD, interviewed him for The Times
Burt Bacharach is a legend in terms of both musical ability and star essence. He really is from an era — from several eras — that to my generation seem so mythic. You’ve got to get as much of that as you can in your life while it’s still around.
I was brought up in a very anti-kitsch environment, therefore I can look at Burt’s stuff with a pretty critical eye. But it’s still flawless; musically it’s just so well built. My parents are really diehard folkies and they were very much anti-establishment when a lot of that late Fifties, Sixties, Seventies kitsch was around. And most of it was worth opposing because it was terrible, except if you were a gay man with a poodle. But needless to say, Burt’s music really weathered that storm. Even the most ardent, banjo-plucking, field-recording Nazi would acknowledge that Promises, Promises is a really amazing song.
Rufus I called you a modern Cole Porter today in an interview, Burt.
Burt Really? That’s a big one!
RW The thing I’ve always appreciated about your writing — and it’s something I’m not capable of doing — is you maintain a keen sense of sophistication as well as being populist and able to relate to a large audience.
BB Oh, there are some songs that you will never hear, or ever want to hear. There were some bad, bad songs too.
RW You’re better at being a star than I am.
BB I’ve been doing it a long time. Usually the role of the composer is not very glamorous. You sit in a room on your own and you write. Most people don’t know what you look like, they just know your songs. But I was out there, being married to Angie Dickinson, being on stage.
RW Let’s just say, judging by the way Burt looks and I look, beauty is still a big plus. Ha ha! I’d also say we’re probably both influenced by German music. I know you’re influenced by Kurt Weill, and you worked with Marlene Dietrich.
BB The first person to record Message to Michael, or Message to Martha, was Dietrich. I made a version of it for the German market with her — now that was a bad record. And there was a kind of Kurt Weill influence on What’s New Pussycat? But Ravel was the thing that turned my head around and made me care about music. Ravel, Dizzy Gillespie, Thelonious Monk and Charlie Parker.
RW You also studied music at McGill University in Montreal. I had no idea, my God! I went there for a year and a half, then dropped out.
BB But it was a good school when you went there. When I went, it was a terrible music school. I was there two years. Did you have fun there?
RW I hated it. Did you graduate?
BB No, I went into something called the US Army, ha ha ha!
RW Needless to say I was very nervous and in awe when you asked me to be on your album. I don’t know why you called me.
BB I know why I called. I was aware of your record at the time and I thought it was terrific.
RW You can be as critical as you want, I’d appreciate it. I have to say initially I was a little scared about what I would think of the track, because I’m such a fan of your work. I was thinking: “God, what if I hate it?†Because I would have lied, ha ha! But when I got it I was pleased, and I could definitely see what you were going for. I know there is a political aspect to the album but what I initially got out of it was almost like one person’s view of the world after living this incredible life, and a bit of remorse that these days aren’t particularly glorious.
BB Not glorious at all!
RW But that there is also hope.
BB I’m glad you got that because when you sing “love is the answerâ€, that matters now even more than before. Does love solve it all? No, but let’s not look at it as a totally dark album. I have no idea where you stand politically, I know where I stand.
RW I believe we are on the edge of a possible Dark Age in the United States, so hope for the sun to shine again is pretty slim right now. There are really good things happening in terms of people just realising how down to the wire we are. In the end America will rise to the occasion. But yeah, it’s pretty scary right now.
BB I’m not so sure it will get turned around. We’ve got three more years of Bush. How long has it been, or did we ever even have a President say: “I f***ed up, I made a mistake� I’d like to be as optimistic as you.
But I’ve got a 9-year-old and a 12-year-old, and I can equate the times of my growing up in New York with theirs. That’s a very powerful thought for me. It’s a dangerous world we’re living in and I don’t know how it’s going to change. I wish I could feel some empathy from our President. I’d like to hear he even reads the newspaper and watches the news!
RW You also work with Doctor Dre on the album. I hate rap music but Dre is indisputably a genius.
BB Dre’s drum loops are just extraordinary, he places the backbeat just a little bit off from bar to bar, so it’s not perfect. For me it’s a tremendous thing to find that young musicians and rock people are into my music — like Oasis.
It’s not like they rediscovered my music, they are discovering it! They weren’t even born when This Guy’s in Love with You came out! Why has it lasted? I don’t know, maybe because it was sophisticated at the time. I was taking chances then. And this is a very satisfying album, because it’s about taking risks again.
RW It’s the same for me, with Elton John and other people liking my music. I’m very flattered, but, on the other hand, I think they recognise the situation I am in is unusual. It’s kind of tough to be weird right now if you’re starting out as a songwriter. I think Elton is an earnest fan of mine, but I also think he realises it’s important that people like me survive, people who are a bit left of centre. Because music has become quite homogenous right now, especially in the United States.
BB Listen, the album I did with Elvis Costello, Painted from Memory, never even got played on the radio over there. Will working with Dre help this album? I’m sure it will, but that’s not why you work with Dre. His drum loops served as an inspirational springboard. I’m very passionate about this album, and I’m so glad we’ve got you on the album, Rufus, because people gravitate to your particular track, Go Ask Shakespeare. I wish you were on another track.
RW Well, any time. I’d love to record Kentucky Bluebird, or anything else. I’ll do it in German, hahaha!
Burt Bacharach’s At this Time is released by BMG on Monday
Rufus Wainwright interviews BB - From The London Times
Moderator: mark
