How well do these composer/producers compare to Bacharach ?

[geoff85]

Thom Bell- sound of sweet Philly Soul- notablle acts include Delfonics, Stylistics, and Spinners(including Then Came You featuring Dionne Warwick)

Teddy Randanzzo/ Bobby Weinstein- Late Doowop Soul Pop- Notable Acts include: Anthony and the Imperals( Out of my Head, Hurt so Bad), Royalettes( Gonna take a Miracle)

Carole King/ Gerry Goffin- easier to name the songs as they worked with almost everyone in their day. Hits include Will you still love me tomorrow, Take Good Care of my baby, Locomotion, Go away Little Girl, Up on the Roof

Jerry Lieber/ MikeStoller- Drifters( there goes my baby, stand by me,spanish harlem, on broadway) Shirley Bassey( I who have nothing) The Exciters(tell him), clovers( Love Potion no 9)

More to come thats it for now.

[Blair N. Cummings]

With the exception of Thom Bell (who, along with Roger Nichols , absorbed Burt`s melodic innovations) there are no relevant comparisons.
They were commercially successful Brill Bldg. contemporaries.
I don`t mean to demean their accomplishments but there really is no valid comparison in compositional or arranging ability. Bacharach out-did them all, even if lyrically there was little to differentiate their songs. They were meant to reflect teen longing, lust, and heartbreak and they did.

[An Enormous BB Fan]

For me, Burt has a way with music that no one else has. His music just does something to me that no other music does. The songwriters mentioned above are all great and they've all written brilliant songs, many of which will go on forever. But, for me, no one compares to Burt. It's like Burt has a special ingredient in all his music. I don't know what it is, or how he does it, but I know it's better than anyone else's. Out of the songwriters listed above, I agree with Blair. I think Thom Bell comes closest to affecting me the way the Burt does. When I first heard the bridge to "Break up to Make Up," I thought that it could have been composed by Burt -- it is that good. And the song itself is so great. So many of Thom Bell's songs are very special to me. But I'll still take Burt's music over anyone else's. And, please, let's not forget the genius orchestrator/arranger that Burt is. Burt's songs have more flavors and more colors and more interesting rhythms in them than anyone else. So, for me, you can easily compare the songwriters mentioned above with one another, but you can't compare them to Burt, who has written such an astonishing variety of songs over decade after decade that it puts him on top of the Mt. Olympus of songwriters.

[geoff85]

I echo what alot of people here say about Thom Bell as well. Alot of Black Soul music of the early 70's could be gritty and groovey i.e. Gamble/Huff but alot of it was so sweet and lush and when they got it right it was next to heaven. Thom Bell always seemed to get it right. Bell also had a brilliant lyricist by the name of Linda Creed who really helped bring life to his beautiful melodies similar to what Hal did for Burt. The bridge at 2:17 in this Delfonic song sounds like classic Burt the rest of the song is classic Randanzzo/ Weinstein and could have been sung by Anthony and Imperials. While I do think Bell was inspired by Bacharach I do think he was a genius in his own right with his own idiosyncracies that also influenced others.


Along with Bell I do place Laura Nyro in the same category with Bacharach. Imagine if she was pushed as a staff writer in the way the other Brill Building composers were? I think she could have easily outdone Carole King as the top Brill female composer but her songs were merely covered and very rarely catered.

Another Geniuses in my opinion is Charles Stepney who composed all the songs on Minnie Rippertons Come to My Garden album. The song rainy day in centerville is a five and a half minute masterpiece that would make Burt, Ravel, and Stravinsky Blush. The first time I heard that song i was overcome it was too beautiful for my brain to process especially starting around 3:35. Sometimes I wish Minnie would have worked with Burt she had that light silky voice that would have glided effortlessly on top of a Bacharach tune.

While Burt is the King its always nice to be able to find contemporaries of near equal value. It makes the world a better place.

[Blair N. Cummings]

Just to repeat for the record: Laura Nyro was never employed at the Brill Building and never wrote a song for anyone but herself. Other singers used her albums as collections of demos and simply covered them.

[geoff85]

Just to repeat for the record: Laura Nyro was never employed at the Brill Building and never wrote a song for anyone but herself. Other singers used her albums as collections of demos and simply covered them.

I am not sure why she is listed on Wikipedia and the Brill Building website. I didnt live thru the era so I can only go off of what I get from what I assume to be reputable sources. Was she an artist in the brill building? She has a strong association with the location? What is her story? After all she was a Jewish New York based songwriter.

[Blair N. Cummings]

Wikipedia is not a reliable source for anything.
Soul Picnic by Michele Kort is a definitive biography all Nyro fans should read.

[Hank]

I’m with you on Charles Stepney. That is a tremendous album - particularly Rainy Day in Centerville. Love how that crescendo (whatever it is) builds for ever.
I know he went on to produce for Earth Wind and Fire....but did he do anything else (other than Rotary Connection) that I need to hear.

Another songwriting/producing duo worthy of consideration is Ashford and Simpson. I don’t know too much about them but in my humble opinion, Diana Ross’s Ain’t No Mountain High Enough is pound for pound the best pop song of all time (and I think Burt is with me on this).
Someone Else Gets The Prize (from the recent Dionne - We Need to Go Back compilation is also fantastic - one of these songs that’s really elevated by the strength of the production (not to mention the performance by Dionne). Does anyone know of other good Ashford & Simpson songs/productions ?

[An Enormous BB Fan]

I want to add that to omit (Eddie) Holland-(Lamont) Dozier-(Brian) Holland from any list of genius songwriters is a horrible oversight. They were not only songwriters but they were, in fact, an industry. If comparisons should be made between Burt and other songwriters, I would put H-D-H at the top of the list. The great Levi Stubbs talked about how unbelievable it was how The Four Tops would keep getting one brilliant song after another from H-D-H. I believe that H-D-H were the backbone of Motown Records -- along with the Funk Brothers. Also, let's not forget this: Kids bought records to dance to. It was a heck of lot easier to dance to H-D-H than to Bacharach/David.

"The Boss" (sung by Diana Ross) and written by Ashford & Simpson is one of my favorites.

[geoff85]

I want to add that to omit (Eddie) Holland-(Lamont) Dozier-(Brian) Holland from any list of genius songwriters is a horrible oversight. They were not only songwriters but they were, in fact, an industry. If comparisons should be made between Burt and other songwriters, I would put H-D-H at the top of the list. The great Levi Stubbs talked about how unbelievable it was how The Four Tops would keep getting one brilliant song after another from H-D-H. I believe that H-D-H were the backbone of Motown Records -- along with the Funk Brothers. Also, let's not forget this: Kids bought records to dance to. It was a heck of lot easier to dance to H-D-H than to Bacharach/David.

"The Boss" (sung by Diana Ross) and written by Ashford & Simpson is one of my favorites.

Enormous my list is far from complete this is an ongoing discussion so I will add more composers for comparison as time goes by. I think we are still dealing with the few that I posted. Of course HDH are worthy along with many others,.

[geoff85]

I’m with you on Charles Stepney. That is a tremendous album - particularly Rainy Day in Centerville. Love how that crescendo (whatever it is) builds for ever.
I know he went on to produce for Earth Wind and Fire....but did he do anything else (other than Rotary Connection) that I need to hear.

Another songwriting/producing duo worthy of consideration is Ashford and Simpson. I don’t know too much about them but in my humble opinion, Diana Ross’s Ain’t No Mountain High Enough is pound for pound the best pop song of all time (and I think Burt is with me on this).
Someone Else Gets The Prize (from the recent Dionne - We Need to Go Back compilation is also fantastic - one of these songs that’s really elevated by the strength of the production (not to mention the performance by Dionne). Does anyone know of other good Ashford & Simpson songs/productions ?

Charles Stepney is probably best known for his work with The Dells(aside from his work with Minnie and RC). Here are a few good ones.

The Dells the love we had

The Dells just as long as we're in love (not a commercial success but so beautiful... reminds me of 5D WORKING ON A GROOVY THING) 0:53- 1:00 and 1:15-1:25 is heaven on earth


There is a song on the Emotions album called Flowers that my dad use to play alot when I was a kid that is written by Maurice White of Earth Wind and Fire and I suspect Charles Stepney had a hand in as well.