I rest my case:-)

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GehVorbei

I rest my case:-)

Post by GehVorbei »

(I will stop posting here and will terminate my profile and stop coming here after this. I think beyond Burt's book there is very little "Now" coming out of here and I personally don't find these tedious character dissections very interesting. That's just me - you guys have fun...)

One more time:

Look, Mister B2B and others, I don't care about all of this personal stuff...I care about the music...

All the discussions we had for the last decade or so were always about: Is DW still in a position to create relevant music...And a lot of times your answer to that question was "no, no, never" and mine was "yes, sometimes, yes.".

Warwick - the interpreter of song not the person - is so remarkable because originally she combined two areas of brilliance: Her very good and unique, flexible mezzo instrument AND her out-of-this world, natural interpretive skills. Among the greatest popular singers there are very, very few who have both talents in abundance. I don't mean that in a nasty way but to me for example Streisand and Bassey are WAY bellow Warwick in their musicality and in their talent to phrase and to deliver lyrics. Do both ladies have maybe even bigger, better instruments than Warwick...Probably....Same is true for Whitney.

The genetic pool in the US with all the hardships attached to the black experience has created in DW a rare combination of intuitive rhythmic genius and passion and the most perfect control...And as far as socialization and insight into lyrical contend is concerned the fact that there was a black middle-class to grow up in for Warwick plays a role, too. She probably could not have channeled Hal quite the way she did if her experience was just rural Georgia or the ghetto.......But clearly the positioning of global high priestess of song and being a black middle-class gal from NJ must have caused conflict and tension...

And I think looking at it from the outside Warwick has done quite well in dealing with that conflict...At least and different from so many of her friends, she has survived and continued to create music.

And there we have the central most significant area of different approach. Do we want perfection preserved or do we esthetically find it interesting that the undiminished interpretive skills are combined with an age-worn instrument. There is very little pop music coming from the perspective of old age...I'm sure there will be much more at some time in the future.

I for one will be eternally grateful for "Why We Sing" and "Only Trust Your Heart" and "Now"...Even "My Favorite Time of Year"...Not because they are the greatest albums on earth but because they contain great musical moments and age is part of the story. Do "Pocketful of Miracles", "Why We Sing" and "99 Miles from L.A." make DW's body of work weaker??? For me, again, the answer is a loud "no". They make it richer...And the extreme fragility of today makes the perfection of her youth even more stunning.

As far as her - if we follo B2B - "nasty, shady" character is concerned, I'm just glad she "svengali-d" herself into being able to record those before-mentioned four album when there was obviously no market for them. There is clearly no sense in most of you how "silent" her generation of black singers has become. The only survivor with a record deal I am aware of is Aretha...Age and popular music are apparently a difficult match for black female vocalists. Regardless how intact their instrument is. When was the last time you bought a newly released album from Roberta or Gladys or Diana???

All the best, Andreas

Marcel
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:47 am

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by Marcel »

Hello Gehvorbei,

Sorry to read that you will leave this forum !!
I always thought to myself, he you were right about Dionne.
I once wrote about Dionne, that she must stop with performing.
I`ve seen her several times in the Netherlands and loved her the way she performes her material.
But that was a long time ago that i saw her.
The last time that i saw her perform was on the BBC dancing with the stars.
She did Always Something There To Remind Me.
But that was not the Dionne with that incredible voice that she once had (15 years ago).

She became to me as a caracture !!
People remind artists with the good stuff and like to see them perform as they are good !!

When i saw Burt in the Netherlands in 2009 with Trijntje on "the North Sea"jazz festival,(Dionne will be here this year)it was a thrill to see that great man
doing his material !
I am a great fan of Burt for more than 40 years and his songs or material never get bored !!

And i know a lot of people who doesn`t like Burt`s music !!

So once again Gehvorbei,
Please don`t leave this forum.
Everybody must and could say (good or bad) what he or she think about an artist !!


Kind regards,

Marcel

gillanddon
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:54 am

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by gillanddon »

GehVorbei you reflect my sentiments entirely and I will be sorry to see you leave the forum.

maestrofan
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:31 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by maestrofan »

Andreas (GehVorbei)

Please RECONSIDER your decision. It is the diverse opinions and input that make the forum interesting and informative. It is impossible to totally separate the personal from the professional. If it was, then why are we so interested in biographies and seeking insight into the motivations and behaviors of public figures? Hope you will stay with us!
Please respond NOW before terminating your profile.

An Enormous BB Fan
Posts: 1192
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:14 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by An Enormous BB Fan »

I don't know why Andreas is taking all of this so personally. Speaking for myself, and I'm sure that I speak for others here as well: Dionne has been an important part of the music we have listened to for all these years. To this very day, I listen to some of Dionne's songs every single day. But, being that this is a discussion group, I see nothing wrong in speaking about certain negative aspects of Dionne, Burt, Hal or anyone else. I, myself, have spoken negatively about Burt. I spoke about how horribly he treated both Hal and Dionne and that it was reprehensible of him to do so. I have also written glowingly and negatively about Dionne. I also will add that I believe all our discussions about Dionne are warranted. But it's a shame that Andreas has to take this so personally and leave this site. Andreas, I do hope that you'll reconsider and come back.

BachtoBacharach
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:32 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by BachtoBacharach »

I agree Enormous. This is a discussion forum and I, like others here have written about the good, the bad, and the ugly regarding Burt, Hal and Dionne. I am sorry Andreas feels the way he does. I am not a cheerleader for BB/HD/DW and never have been and there are fan forums for that type of thing. I love their music and the human beings behind this wonderful music are fascinating. I too have spoken very frankly about Burt and his meltdown in the 1970s which took Dionne's career down the tubes. She reacted far more graciously than I think many would have...it took her years to finally get enough and sue. I have written about Burt's initial petulance and bitterness over Dionne's dramatic comeback in 1979. I have written about Dionne's great qualities which unfortunately have been overshadowed by many, many poor choices on her part which have left so many wondering how those choices she made could bring down so much. And, scratching their heads at how such an intelligent woman could be burned over and over. But, this is what a discussion forum is for. I too hope that Andreas can stop taking the discussions here so personally. I have nothing against anyone here and I disagree and agree with many who post here just as they disagree and agree with me. Our common ground always is the appreciation of their art together good or bad. If this were simply a cheerleading forum for Burt, Hal and Dionne, I doubt many would return and there are enough of those PR sites around for the trio. I too hope that Andreas will return if he can find a way to be comfortable with the level of frankness many here display, including myself.

ron hertel
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:08 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by ron hertel »

Have you noticed the increase in the number of posts when the discussion gets lively and the differences in opinion surface? ..... That's what makes the forum so interesting. It has always been obvious to me that the participants here share admiration, concern and respect for the artistry of the BB/HD/DW team. ........... If Burt's forthcoming book provides some behind the scenes insight into all that has transpired between them over the past 50+ years - there will be plenty more to discuss here. ................. Hopefully Andreas will reconsider his decision!

nikray77
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by nikray77 »

I understand his position frankly some of you just lack good manners. There is no reason to imply some of the personal stuff many of you have told about Dionne, even if true. It's tacky and simply shows a real lack of perspective and good taste. Who does these such things, for the sake of just discussing people, I would not talk about people in my real life this way. I still say a few here have clear agendas and Dionne appears to be the end game. OH but's that's right it's just opinions, right!!

nikray77
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by nikray77 »

An Enormous BB Fan wrote:I don't know why Andreas is taking all of this so personally. Speaking for myself, and I'm sure that I speak for others here as well: Dionne has been an important part of the music we have listened to for all these years. To this very day, I listen to some of Dionne's songs every single day. But, being that this is a discussion group, I see nothing wrong in speaking about certain negative aspects of Dionne, Burt, Hal or anyone else. I, myself, have spoken negatively about Burt. I spoke about how horribly he treated both Hal and Dionne and that it was reprehensible of him to do so. I have also written glowingly and negatively about Dionne. I also will add that I believe all our discussions about Dionne are warranted. But it's a shame that Andreas has to take this so personally and leave this site. Andreas, I do hope that you'll reconsider and come back.

How is feeling that another/other posters have gone too far taking something personally. There is a point that some here have crossed clear lines of good taste. That's opinion as well which I agree with him. Some of this conversation is like taking pictures on someone on the toliet and calling it just conversation. Really? I agree with Andreas I have been here off and on for some years and some people here have posted nothing but angry, tacky, gossip. And yet some here eat it up and repeat it as if worshipping at the cross. Frankly I don't know how some people live with themselves just in terms of how it comes across to others. I do find it funny that the same people would have the guts to tell Dionne how she should treat people...yeah that's funny. Especially after reading some of this stuff on here. Having an opinion is fine being nasty because you can be is just being nasty.

An Enormous BB Fan
Posts: 1192
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:14 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by An Enormous BB Fan »

nikray77, I didn't post any opinions. I see that you want to deny facts and call them opinions. You can call the earth flat, for all I care, but it doesn't make it so. And just for your own edification: I was personally snubbed by Dionne many years ago. A bunch of us were. We stayed and waited for her after a concert. So please don't talk to me about opinions when I know the truth. This is a discussion forum and we're not here to discuss only things that make you or anyone happy. My opinion is that neither you nor Andrea can handle the truth. So be it then.

gillanddon
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:54 am

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by gillanddon »

Enormous BB Fan .... how can anyone expect personal attention from a performer back stage or otherwise after their concerts etc? In my experience they are usually on an adrenaline high, exhausted and sweating with one objective ,,, a drink and a shower!! Funnily enough your comment summed up your and B2B's feelings about Dionne Warwick generally ... that you somehow feel personally rejected because she didn't single you out for attention? Get over it!

GehVorbei

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by GehVorbei »

I've asked Mark to terminate my profile because apparently I can't do it myself. And I thank everybody who has been friendly towards me...Through personal messages and their posts. You know who you are.

The Palm Spring thing just did it for me...No empathy for a woman who had just filed for bankruptcy and had lost a close friend. If you look on YT the media were really after her with the financial story...Waiting in her driveway...Hunting her down at the local mall, even at her doctor's office.........

...So, she is not doing the red carpet and around here there is almost consensus that that's another example of her generally bad attitude towards her fans...One after the other supports that point...

...And B2B like always gives you the impression he was there, which he clearly wasn't. Because if you look at the clips of the event, they tell a totally different story: Warwick looks great, she is charming, she is not as guarded anymore in answering questions as she used to be...she sometimes even gives real answers...The audience clearly loves her..And Gary Keys - who comes across a real genuine guy goes out of his way to emphasize Warwick's loyalty as a friend...Not just towards himself but as a character trait towards everybody she likes...



And above that I have the feeling that the era of BB/HD/DW is close to coming to an end as far as new music etc.is concerned. I saw DW in two of the best locations in Europe last year. I'm very happy about the fact that the last album with Phil materialized (what timing) and I look forward to Burt's book and his European tour.

But beyond that I don't expect much more and suppose the book will answer all questions I have.

So time to move on...I'm sure Warwick will retire once the bankruptcy proceedings have been completed.

Time to move on:-)

nikray77
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by nikray77 »

An Enormous BB Fan wrote:nikray77, I didn't post any opinions. I see that you want to deny facts and call them opinions. You can call the earth flat, for all I care, but it doesn't make it so. And just for your own edification: I was personally snubbed by Dionne many years ago. A bunch of us were. We stayed and waited for her after a concert. So please don't talk to me about opinions when I know the truth. This is a discussion forum and we're not here to discuss only things that make you or anyone happy. My opinion is that neither you nor Andrea can handle the truth. So be it then.

Again is this your first day reading? My point then and now is I could give a bee's behind about you being snubbed by Dionne that was not what the conversation and my 'rant' was not about that in the least. What truth is that we are not suppose to be able to handle. As I stated in the thread earlier I don't care if everything single thing stated is the truth it does not change my opinion about Dionne, half of this is gossip nonsense. If you feel Dionne snubbed you all well scream it from the mountain tops ( of this site) but this other stuff you and others are going on about is a entirely different animal. That fact that you can't see that more than proves GehVorbei's point and wanting to step away from this mess. As a fan of Dionne I don't own the right to her personal life once she steps off of that stage or cd, ipod, etc. Frankly too me Dionne is no different than many of the celebrities I have encountered after some point people/fan mistake being a fan with being the owner of that person's life. Dionne is not perfect I don't expect her even after this situation to be perfect. Yet I dare say many of you who are the most critical and the real truth 'teller' could not take a day under the same microscope you appear to place Dionne. I have seen both Burt and Dionne many times in concert I have not spent a minute of my time trying to get to know them on a personal level. Too what end? Again I would not write some of the stuff about others on any site no matter if it's the truth or not. Why because again it just is something I would not do even to someone I did not like...I don't for minute need Dionne to be my fantasy. Dionne is a brilliant artist that's all I need. Her personal life has always been messy again how is any of that your business?

@GehVorbei totally respect your last few posts to the max. Yes you had to know that some posters would post what I saw was the only negative comments regarding Dionne visit to Palm Springs event. Regarding the red carpet I have no idea what the timing was for that occasion maybe Dionne did not want to talk to the press. Maybe she was running late, maybe they told her Dionne we do not want to meet with the press. Who knows, does it really matter, she sat watched the film, answered audience questions what really is the point of some of this to a few posters. Guys grab a stone...

An Enormous BB Fan
Posts: 1192
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:14 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by An Enormous BB Fan »

nikray77 wrote: As I stated in the thread earlier I don't care if everything single thing stated is the truth it does not change my opinion about Dionne, half of this is gossip nonsense.
Try to calm down. The things being said about Dionne are not "gossip nonsense". I'm not trying to change anyone's "opinion," and certainly not yours. And if I wish to make her personal business my business, then I'll do so. If you wish to ignore her personal life, then why are you bothering to read all of what is being said about her? Ignore it. It's none of your business then. Follow your own advice. Have a good day!

nikray77
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: I rest my case:-)

Post by nikray77 »

An Enormous BB Fan wrote:
nikray77 wrote: As I stated in the thread earlier I don't care if everything single thing stated is the truth it does not change my opinion about Dionne, half of this is gossip nonsense.
Try to calm down. The things being said about Dionne are not "gossip nonsense". I'm not trying to change anyone's "opinion," and certainly not yours. And if I wish to make her personal business my business, then I'll do so. If you wish to ignore her personal life, then why are you bothering to read all of what is being said about her? Ignore it. It's none of your business then. Follow your own advice. Have a good day!
Wow sounds like someone is taking this entire thing just a little bit personal. Why would you do that for Godsake? You should calm down. Look I am still waiting for the sources showing that Dionne's former manager had to cover her checks?
I sure there are 'written' documentation and there is a some documentation that of course would then make it gossip. Thinking is a thing one should do for themselves.

Again some of these things even if true are tacky and show who people really are in their lives and I don't mean Dionne's. Look I am sure if you want to tell us how many women Burt has slept with and what they did in bed you would find that as well. Yes I am calling some of you out on your behavior again some could not take the mess you have been dishing out to Dionne. I would love to know some gossip...oh facts about your personal lives and you don't have to give actual sources. Because it's about having a discussion isn't that the line that some use? Oh I think I stated the reason I even responsed to these conversations in more than one thread, after reading some of this nonsense for some time. Personal attacks indeed.

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