Behavior like this can turn a person off

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An Enormous BB Fan
Posts: 1192
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:14 pm

Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by An Enormous BB Fan »

Read the article below by clicking on the link I provided:

Note the following: "When Warwick arrived, she greeted filmmaker Gary Keys at the front of the theater and then flew by the red carpet and photo op area, disappointing fans and press alike."

She couldn't spend 5 minutes of her precious time for photo ops and letting her fans see her and maybe even sign a few for the fans?

Note this too: "Dionne spoke in a quiet voice and when festival director Teddy Grouya suggested that she pull the microphone in closer she rebuffed him saying "No, I don't eat a mike. If you want to hear me, then you will have to listen." He didn't ask Miss Thing to eat the microphone. He asked her to move it closer. Too much for her.

Another thing: Dionne complains over and over again in various interviews about how tough it is being a star like her and having to actually get up early and travel to her job. Why doesn't she leave the day before?

Believe me, B2B knows more about Dionne than any of us ever will.

http://www.examiner.com/article/dionne- ... m-festival

GehVorbei

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by GehVorbei »

What's the relevance of this, I don't get it? Do we judge Sinatra's artistic oeuvre based on his behavior towards his fans? Or Billie Holiday's on her smoking ?
I really don't care about want somebody who has apparently once worked for her and quite obviously then got cut out of her life has found shifting through her garbage. Literally...

Why is it with this strong, independent black woman that some of you are so concerned with her (pretty normal) behavior patterns and wanting to tell her how to live her life. I can not recall any similar discussions about Burt and Hal for example.

I found it interesting that she said in Palm Springs that in hindsight she should have gone into teaching instead of performing. She doesn't sound bitter at all about it but very balanced...And maybe she is right and she would have had an altogether more comfortable life.

Also fascinating to think of what would have happened to BB and HD if DW had not ventured into performing...Who would they have written for: Cilla, Dusty, Aretha...And would those performers have driven them to the same masterpieces or others.

All history.

vincent.cole
Posts: 788
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:45 pm
Location: Staten Island N.Y.

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by vincent.cole »

Dionne behavior is reprehensible!!!

What is she thinking?! The Red Carpet is where you endear yourself to your fans and the press!

And the microphone! No Dionne is not at Willie Wonka’s Chocolate Factory!!

I am speaking from personal experience! Since the 90’s I have lost the amount of times that I have met Burt Bacharach! And each and every time he has been very, very kind to all the fans that met him after concerts! I am very sorry that I never met Hal David! But from what I gather, he seemed like a pure gentlemen!

Just an aside. Early in the last decade, I gave Dionne her favorite flowers from my seat when her concert was over. They were a dozen Lavender Roses! When I met her in the lobby after the show, she did not even acknowledge or thank me! That was cool by me, since many of the fans wanted a photo, etc… In addition, I met Dionne back stage twice in my life and she was very nice to me! One time she posed for a great photo of both of us! I hope Dionne remembers that the fans are the ones that brought the millions of copies 45’s and Albums!
Last edited by vincent.cole on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Take care;

Vincent

BachtoBacharach
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:32 pm

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by BachtoBacharach »

All of this is relevant. Sinatra and Holiday are both dead. Warwick, still living, will not achieve the kind of credibility and recognition for creating her art until she is long gone. She has taken away from the very music that put her where she is. She has cheapened and tarnished her musical legacy in a way I have seen no other artist of her former stature do. Where is her respect for her music and for Bacharach and David AND for herself? She has been cashing in on herself for years. She literally has wiped her bum with her reputation, her fans, Bacharach and David. Holiday struggled mightily with blatant racism, drug addiction, prostitution, alcoholism, poverty and these stuggles Billie faced make her art even more powerful. Dionne's struggles have been much more mundane compared to Billie's, and Dionne has whined about them for years and about how "hard" it is to be a star at her level. Billie never achieved the respect in life that that she has in death. Dionne has enjoyed great fame and wealth and adulation in the industry and has lived a life that Billy could only dream of, as far as the trappings of wealth and success go and has squandered it at her own hand. Those trappings have always seemed to be more important to Dionne than anything else, art be damned. Billy struggled for her art. Billie was also never the diva. Darlene Love remarked that Dionne always loved the trappings of fame and being the star and being the center of attention always in a designer gown and sipping a glass of champagne. There is a shallowness and a sense of entitlement to Dionne that comes to the fore from time to time as well, and the article attached to this thread demonstrates. What are the stuggles Dionne has faced compared to Billie? Getting on a plane? Getting up early? Dionne has always been dismissed in some circles as a lightweight pop singer. She had overcome that by the mid-1980s to a great extent but now she is dismissed through her own actions and it's only through her work with Bacharach/David that any respect these days is attached to her. There is one thing that continues to bring Dionne down and that is her large sense of entitlement. She has had and continues to display an arrogant and superior attitude. Her comment regarding the microphone is typical and telling. When you are in Dionne's presence, you are to recognise that you are indeed very privileged to be with royalty and you must act accordingly. Listen quietly as I am important and I have important things to say. Her haughty behaviours are well documented in the press. She, herself, has cheapened her legacy to the point where she is not taken as seriously as she could be and the greatness of her work with Bacharach and David has been seriously diminished, again by her own hand. To wonder what Bacharach and David would have done without Dionne also begs the reverse question. Would Dionne be considered in the same breath as Holiday and Sinatra without Bacharach and David? Certainly not based upon her work in the 1980s. The gravitas of her 1960s work with Burt and Hal is what gave her the legendary status she had but she has now become a caricature of herself. Still playing the diva with no humility and no grace under pressure; she gets some bad press over her bankruptcy and she compensates by becoming more petulant, imperious and disdainful. She displayed a remarkable indifference and lack of respect to Gary Keys and his wonderful documentary with featured her prominently and also a lack of respect for her fans. It's all about her and always has been. She is responsible for her current stature in the business, her financial condition, and if she continues to behave in this way, she will lose what little respect she has. Her lack of humility, judgment and self-awareness is astonishing and well documented through the years. She is truly her own worst enemy. When you continue bite the hand that feeds you, those chickens eventually come home to roost.

gabba
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:11 pm

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by gabba »

BachtoBacharach:
ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOUR POINT!

maestrofan
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Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by maestrofan »

NEVER DISMISS the contributions that BachtoBacharach makes to this forum as hateful or vindictive. I KNOW that HE KNOWS first hand what he's talking about! Ms. Warwick is truly an enigma. This latest display of arrogance at the Palm Springs documentary film event is particularly reprehensible given that this event honored the Drinkard, Warrick and Houston families. Those fans who attended and were disappointed were there because they cared for her and her family personally. Her self-proclaimed religious virtuosity is and has been contradicted throughout her entire career by her behavior toward others and her self destructive actions. Because of Ms. Warwick's puzzling behavior throughout her career, I think it's safe to say that Mr. Bacharach has maintained a certain degree of "professional and personal" distancing from Ms. Warwick while respecting her unmatched vocal capabilities and realizing that their artistic success was interdependent. Keep posting BachtoBacharach. Your input is accurate, appreciated and relevant to what this discussion forum is all about.

GehVorbei

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by GehVorbei »

With "fans" like some of you guys, who needs enemies...

Maybe there are some cultural differences here and it is part of American middle class values that you always have to show overt gratitude for the blessings you received in life. Something Puritan.

I have great sympathy for a woman that just had the public embarrassment of having to file for bankruptcy, lost a close friend a couple of days ago and is supporting a film that must be also painful in parts for her to watch not to want to walk the red carpet of a D-class film festival.

And I salute her for her reaction to that bum who told her to get closer to the mike. You are telling the single greatest master of the instrument microphone that ever graced the earth on how to use the mike. You gotta be kidding...If you had done that to Dietrich - she would have left without a word.

I think with 72 and after 50 years of working pretty hard in your job you have every right to chose when and to whom you want to pay attention to. Same with Aretha.

Their careers are 99% over and there soon will be no more public's ass they have to kiss. Good for them.

BachtoBacharach
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:32 pm

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by BachtoBacharach »

What diva worshiping BS! Gary Keys is no D-lister but a respected documentarian and producer. You applaud Warwick's treatment of "the little people"? The event producer is a bum for asking her to move the microphone closer? How bloody dare he ask "the inventor of the microphone" practically from your description to hold the microphone closer so the "little people" who paid big bucks to see her can hear what she has to say? What poppycock! You mentioned Dietrich...Dietrich was more professional than to chastise someone publicly for asking her to speak a little louder...she had more respect for her fans than that. Warwick's lack of humility, her arrogance and entitlement and her bitterness may be acceptable in some circles, but I don't know what circles that would be in. She didn't spring forth in full, glorious divahood from a cabbage leaf. She has not achieved the success she has in a total vacuum but she behaves as though she did and so do you. Such ingratitude has not endeared her to many these days and has cost her greatly. Is this an example of why Warwick is gracing the stages of what you call D-list events...if that is the case, she has become a d-lister herself, wouldn't you agree? The event was to honor her and you belittle the event, implying that it was beneath her. How telling. The sad truth is that Warwick has become the butt of her own joke...all at her own hand. Warwick seems to be garnering the respect she gives the public who put her where she is...and you're right, she owes them nothing and she's sure hell bent on proving that, isn't she. The public owes her nothing either and at the rate she is going, she'll soon get total indifference from the public...she's made sure of that. Karma is a bitch, isn't it? What a wonderful musical legacy she has trashed for herself.
Last edited by BachtoBacharach on Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

maestrofan
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:31 pm

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by maestrofan »

the purpose of a discussion forum is to DISCUSS not WORSHIP. It is pretty clear to me that most who participate in these discussions respect and appreciate Ms. Warwick and Mr. Bacharach and all that they along with Mr. David have contributed to our enjoyment of great music. The discussion board provides us with some insight into what motivates them and "what makes them tick". Aren't we all looking forward to Mr. Bacharach's upcoming book? I do not detect any British tabloid or National Enquirer type of salacious gossip here. It's all matter of fact. Ms. Warwick's boorish behavior and self destructive career moves make no sense. These actions on her part simply represent who she truly is and has the right to be. We all reap what we sow and when you are in the public eye you are always being observed and discussed. If Ms. Warwick had avoided these pitfalls she would have been a true International Icon.

GehVorbei

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by GehVorbei »

What's the diva worship part about? I'm saying: "Let her live her life now!"

She has given most of what she had to give. Apparently now is the time for her to let the hair grow grey, put on the baseball caps and jeans a lot of the times and be sometimes grumpy. Perfection and constant diva-ism is no longer required... It's obvious that there is some fading out going on.

Nobody has to die as a diva like Dietrich, who didn't leave her apartment for the last decade of her life because she wanted to be remembered when she was still larger-than-life.

Let's face it the era of BB/HD/DW is almost over, if it hasn't ended with Hal's passing already.

I'm going to read Burt's book and probably will catch sight of Warwick occasionally on television award shows or similar. But I don't expect there will be much more new music coming from them.

face
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:29 pm

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by face »

GehVorbei wrote:What's the diva worship part about? I'm saying: "Let her live her life now!"

She has given most of what she had to give. Apparently now is the time for her to let the hair grow grey, put on the baseball caps and jeans a lot of the times and be sometimes grumpy. Perfection and constant diva-ism is no longer required... It's obvious that there is some fading out going on.

Nobody has to die as a diva like Dietrich, who didn't leave her apartment for the last decade of her life because she wanted to be remembered when she was still larger-than-life.

Let's face it the era of BB/HD/DW is almost over, if it hasn't ended with Hal's passing already.

I'm going to read Burt's book and probably will catch sight of Warwick occasionally on television award shows or similar. But I don't expect there will be much more new music coming from them.
You know, GehVorbei, you make some excellent points. Dionne must be tired by now after all these years, and she deserves some slack. I must confess something to you all, though: I believe that Dionne's Now CD would have sold better if she had glamorized her appearance more during her promotional appearances. Part of the Dionne's popularity and mystique in the past was her elegant appearance and carriage, but she has been slowly abandoning it since sometime in the late 90s. I dread the day that someone first told her that she looks sporty in that damned baseball cap, because I cringe every time she wears it on TV. Please make it go away. I'd much prefer for Dionne to scale back her appearances if that means that she would have the time and energy to put herself together like she used to. Imagine if she had promoted Now with her white hair nicely styled, nice makeup, no granny glasses, some nice jewelry, and some level of attention to her wardrobe--kind of like the cover of the CD, or her appearance at the Black Girls Rock event. I think it would have made a world of difference, because that project was about her longevity and legendary status, but she didn't care to look the part while she was doing the promo rounds. It's a shame, too, because the album sounds so wonderful.

BachtoBacharach
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:32 pm

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by BachtoBacharach »

If that is the case, she should retire. Burt is in the twilight of his career and his life as well and he has never behaved anything other than graciously to his fans; a true class act of the first magnitude and enjoying the hell out of performing and living! Warwick's poor behaviors are nothing new and she's sometimes has had kind of a "poor, pitiful me" attitude. She's been behaving similarly towards her fans and the public for years. She is living the life she has made for herself. No one caused this but her. I am sad for her that she can't enjoy what she has worked so hard to achieve; it heartbreaking to see her self-destructiveness and self-humiliation and inability to take responsibility for her behaviors result in the loss of so much financial security and the respect she once enjoyed many years ago. Her behaviors are cumulative and the wholesale prostitution of her career is cumulative as well...there was a tipping point that she reached quite a few years ago and she's been blind to what that has cost her despite the best efforts of some really close friends and advisors and some in her family to tell it like it is. It's the same willful self-destructiveness and the hordes of enablers who have led so many singers down that path. You mentioned Aretha. Aretha has been known to have her own arrogant behaviors yet has retained her legendary status. Why? I believe it's because she has seldom if ever disrespected her fans who put her where she is. She has respected her legacy as well. No countless remakes of her former hits, no clairvoyants, no foundation scandals, no extravagancies at charity expense, etc. As for la Dietrich, she knew when to hang it up and go out as a legend. So did Tina Turner. So did many others. What is motivating Warwick to constantly complain about working and the agony of being a "star" and yet keep up the grind? She can retire, she is not destitute; she has the means to live rather comfortably from a modest standpoint.

And, this has nothing to do with her baseball caps, and her appearance! This shallow focus on the aspects of her "looks" and her "elegance" etc. is not why she has lost respect! Those are diva trappings. Those surface things are not important. A little makeup, a new gown and a better hairstyle isn't going to change anything.

gillanddon
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:54 am

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by gillanddon »

Well done GehVorbei!! I'm on your side the whole way. One thing for sure ... Dionne's dominating a lot of space on Mr B's website discussion forum!! He doesn't seem to be complaining too loudly! More talk than he even gets! Gosh you sound so angry B2B ... I wish you'd tell us who you are as you take the debate to a real personal level which undermines the credibility of you comments.. Could be interesting. So bitter about really irrelevant and often very personal facts about Dionne Warwick's life ... this 'ruined reputation' stuff and the summing up of her career is also a bit meaningless. Her music will stand on it's own regardless her behavior and fan base ... in any case, her fans, including me, see the positive aspects of her career. These days artists arn't relying purely on fans and in Dionne's case her activities go far beyong them. I also don't see any of the 'collapsing reputation' you seem obsessed about. She still attracts a huge amount of international attention and plays to packed houses.You also don't have to be a fan to appreciate her recordings, so I don't understand why you and enormous BB Fan etc take what Dionne does or doesn't do so personally. You sound like badly treated past employees or something .. but sadly you also sound as if you just want to get at her. There are a lot of pressures on artists at public occasions to sign autographs and thank all concerned etc and most I have noticed go to great lengths to dodge the crowd by exiting via a back door into a rapidly departing car, most people understand this ... why should Dionne have to behave like Mother Theresa all the time? In any case, Dionne does an enormous amount of excellent public work ... something none of you ever mention ,, which more than compensates for the 'mishap' you mention ... we also don't know the real facts behind the scene beforehand etc .. who she has seen, thanked etc Even if what you say about her is true, and I don't believe it is (you also neglect the private person none of us see) then her work will stand the test of time beyond your petty incriminations.

BachtoBacharach
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:32 pm

Re: Behavior like this can turn a person off

Post by BachtoBacharach »

There is nothing "personal" I have written here that can't be verified in the public accounts published during Warwick's career. I am not nor have I ever been an employee of Warwick and have no "axe to grind" with her personally or professionally. My assessments are sometimes brutal, yes, I'll agree with that, but again the public record bears me out and the private record will remain private. But you glimpse the private person from time to time in public events, etc. just as the article alludes to. I have written of her great generosity on many occasions. Her love of family and loyalty to them is well reported and certainly true. She has given of her time to charitable causes and has a career filled with philanthropy. She generously gave her time to young musicians in the 1960s to guide and even produce some of them and she gave scholarships to promising young musicians. She founded Bravo, a charity involved in sickle cell research which was on the level and was run very well; a gentleman by the name of Paul Cantor saw to that. She took care of her family and friends and showered them with lavish and expensive gifts; yes generous to fault but held in check by some good managers. She has given away a great deal of her time and her fortune to worthy causes and that can't be taken away from her. She is a giving person. I for one, wish she had done as she had always dreamed and gone into teaching. She was a marvelous teacher; compassionate and caring. She seemed never really comfortable with or to care too much about the level of fame she achieved...but oh how she loved and became addicted to the things it brought her both ego wise and financially and she worked hard to maintain that lifestyle. She's worked hard her entire career, very hard and very much harder than she probably had to. But it all seemed to change when she began to falter financially. That's when the bad decisions (and she'd made plenty before but always seemed to recover) began to catch up with her. When the users like Guy Draper, and others predators came into her life. When her entourages began to swell and the hangers-on took over. One of the biggest mistakes she made was to part ways with the one professional person in her life who kept her grounded and guided her to her greatest fame and fortune and who truly cared for her in a way that few managers care for their clients and his name is Paul Cantor. She lost her guidance system, her judgment, her rudder when he left. He could always pull her back, bring good people into her life to straighten out the messes. They were not only business associates but close friends and she depended on Cantor as she did no other. He shot straight with her and once he was out of her life, the enablers seemed to take over. Much has been written about how close Dionne and Burt were and are. They are close professionally but personally, they were not close in the way most people think they would be. They rarely socialized outside of the occasional drink after a recording session and they spent most of their time together either rehearsing or in a studio. Other than that, there were just not the opportunities for them to be together that much since both were pursuing their own stars. I thought it extremely odd that she paid no mention of how Cantor guided her career in her book and how he is due as much credit for making her the massive star she became as anyone else. She wrote him out of her life. The result of her choices are what we see playing out now. I don't hate Warwick but I do hate her behaviors and what she has done to her legacy; her music will stand the test of time but her dismissiveness of own legacy is troubling and ironic and is keeping legions of potential new folks from discovering what Bacharach/David/Warwick is all about because they hear her name and think oh the psychic lady, or oh yeah that woman who ripped off those charities, or that woman who had it all and threw it away. There is a real person down inside Dionne but I don't think anyone has seen her in a long time. She seems terribly unhappy to me and has for a long while and I do wish she would retire and enjoy her life, her friends and her family. She has nothing to prove any longer except to herself (and what that is only she knows) and I can't fathom why she continues to push herself at the pace she does especially when there is no joy there for her. I don't want to see any new projects or see her in concert again; I don't want to consume her product any longer; she's given all of us enough. What is left of her the fanatics can consume but I hope she is tired of feeding them and will say no more, walk away and disappear and find herself and her family and friends. Now that she has filed bankruptcy, maybe she can get rid of all the garbage she has accumulated around her and take care of herself. She will weather the humiliation of a very public bankruptcy; she's incredibly strong and tough. Now that she has bottomed out, maybe she will take stock and get her life in order. I hope so. And one other thing about Dionne; we are seeing the result as well of her inability to say no...she left that to Paul Cantor and when he went, that ability went with him. She found one "no" recently and that was the decision to stop the charade of maintaining appearances to please others at great cost to herself. She should get off the celebrity merry-go-round...and I wish her well in that.

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